tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post5215426362857981424..comments2023-10-15T04:48:05.528-04:00Comments on Free the Princess: GUEST POST: The Dangers of Steampunk – Don’t Forget the PunkMatthew Delmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11452378192874048547noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-84021996205380384842011-04-20T09:50:58.708-04:002011-04-20T09:50:58.708-04:00(Published under HolzmanTweed@AIM because holzman@...(Published under HolzmanTweed@AIM because holzman@LJ isn't working right now)<br /><br />The others who raised this point utterly failed to substantiate it, either, and were rightly taken to task for it.<br /><br />"Where have they dealt with the issues I suggested?"<br /><br />This is exactly what I'm talking about regarding homework. It is not possible that you can have read any of these authors published works and ask that question.<br /><br />Poverty, slavery, child labor, and imperialism are central themes in Gilman's <i>Thunderer</i>, Priest's <i>Boneshaker</i> and <i>Dreadnaught</i>, and Mann's <i>The Affinity Bridge</i> and <i>The Osiris Ritual</i>, Sedia's <i>The Alchemy of Stone</i>. <br /><br />Sexism, racism, and classism are even the central themes in Carriger's light-hearted comedy of manners, <i>The Parasol Protectorate</i> trilogy.<br /><br />And this is just a partial list of novels. The list of Steampunk short stories by authors like Amal el Mohtar, N.K. Jemisin, Saladin Ahmed, and on and on and on is too long to list here.<br /><br />And that's just fiction. There's James Ng's art. There's Jha Goh's Silver Goggles blog, Diana Pho's Beyond Victoriana, and Miriam Rocek's Shiola.Dan Holzman-Tweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11291546648247016483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-59750606215919027572011-04-20T08:09:19.688-04:002011-04-20T08:09:19.688-04:00Thanks for all your comments.
Hi Holzman,
I'...Thanks for all your comments.<br /><br />Hi Holzman,<br /><br />I'm not pointing fingers. I'm raising questions, based on others who have raised this point. 'CAN such a leap be made, from the appreciation of artistry to the acceptance of out-dated values?' 'PERHAPS...' I'm suggesting that it's a POTENTIAL danger of the genre.<br /><br />But with the authors you've highlighted, where have they dealt with the issues I suggested? Child labour, slavery, extreme poverty, imperialism, racism... (I'm not accusing, I'm genuinely asking for examples.)<br /><br />--<br />Hi R.S. Bohn,<br /><br />You say 'The question is, should those elements be there in order to constitute Steampunk? Are they essential?' in reference to the negative aspects of the time. I'm not saying that they should be, I'm just suggested that perhaps because they are not, it has lead to this portrayal. <br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I adore the aesthetic element of steampunk, and as you suggest, it was definitely one of the things that drew me to the genre.<br /><br />I think you are right. Steampunk is a relevantly new genre. Though its elements have been around for decades, it is only recently become established as something in its own right. And it is diverse, evolving and expanding.<br /><br />Dru Pagliassotti wrote a very interesting post in which she suggests there is such as thing as 'steampulp'. Definitely worth a read: http://ageofsteam.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/how-do-i-write-a-steampunk-story-by-dru-pagliassotti/<br /><br />I wish I could find the article (I think it was on The Mad Hatter's site: http://booktionary.blogspot.com/) where someone suggests that steampunk is defined by its readers and is whatever they want it to be. An interesting perspective.Sophie Playlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14937622260333202138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-8285973910818209962011-04-19T16:34:46.951-04:002011-04-19T16:34:46.951-04:00Did you ever notice that it's really popular t...Did you ever notice that it's really popular to say "Steampunk ignores the negative aspects of the Victorian age," but no one -- including the author of this article -- ever actually points to a specific example of such? In the meantime, I can point to Priest, Mann, Gilman, and a host of others as refutation of the charge! I really, really wonder who all these commenters are reading in order to come away with this notion. <br /><br />Do your homework, people! This criticism is as tired as it is false.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-72569421487097467012011-04-19T15:57:32.428-04:002011-04-19T15:57:32.428-04:00I don't see much "punk" in Steampunk...I don't see much "punk" in Steampunk either, and as pointed out, a lot of the negative aspects of that particular time in history are often glossed over or ignored altogether by the genre. The question is, should those elements be there in order to constitute Steampunk? Are they essential?<br /><br />Science fiction is a much broader genre, but when you think of what's been done within it, it's astounding. For instance, Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" (and its movie version, "Blade Runner") examine the concept of what it means to be human. I think you may be wishing for Steampunk to take on these larger themes, to "be all it can be," and while I am on your side and wishing heartily for some stronger themes, I think we also need to realize A) how extraordinarily new Steampunk is compared to other genres and B) how much its aesthetic is embraced as the base of its appeal. Simply coming to terms with that and waiting it out is, basically, what I'm doing. I'm waiting to see where this genre will go, and hoping for some huge things on the horizon.<br /><br />In the meantime, it's not necessarily a bad thing if a book is called Steampunk and is your basic adventure novel set in the 1880s with the addition of airships and goggles. There's room for that and for the bigger issues of counterculture and man's rapid acceleration into technologies he may or may not be prepared to handle. After all, if you look at publishers who ostensibly publish only fantasy, you'll see they do a large amount of spec fic and fantasy/SF cross-over. <br /><br />So, in short, while a literal and pedantic definition of Steampunk might be what you're looking for, I think it'll pay to broaden the definition and see what else comes along next.R.S. Bohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09101260459422806220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-260894149188278372011-04-19T13:45:09.104-04:002011-04-19T13:45:09.104-04:00I'm not seeing much 'punk' in Steampun...I'm not seeing much 'punk' in Steampunk either. Everyone seems to be moving away from the negative elements of the Victorian age. <br /><br />Remember – Sherlock Holmes was a cocaine user. Haggard’s ‘She’ had cannibalism, a powerful feminist figure head. All excellent pieces. <br /><br />-TimTimothy P. Remphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04422296532550497806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-3350863199279836552011-04-19T06:06:53.492-04:002011-04-19T06:06:53.492-04:00I'm not demanding anything. I'm simply hig...I'm not demanding anything. I'm simply highlighting some thoughts.Sophie Playlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14937622260333202138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-86772192018543865122011-04-19T01:20:23.830-04:002011-04-19T01:20:23.830-04:00If it's rebellious, you can not demand its obe...If it's rebellious, you can not demand its obedience to what you think it should be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-81419060571983594142011-04-18T11:05:33.380-04:002011-04-18T11:05:33.380-04:00Punk, throughout history and by its very definitio...Punk, throughout history and by its very definition, is more than just aesthetic. <br /><br />I hate to quote from the free online dictionary but my subscription to the OED has run out:<br /><br />Punk: a member of a rebellious counterculture groupSophie Playlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14937622260333202138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-6451006777781230992011-04-17T15:40:45.345-04:002011-04-17T15:40:45.345-04:00Was intended by whom? And who is this person who g...Was intended by whom? And who is this person who gets to dictate to all present and future writers/artists/etc. what they may and may not do in the field of steampunk, and why would anyone listen to him?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-52920614281829544152011-04-17T07:51:41.468-04:002011-04-17T07:51:41.468-04:00"Steampunk being an aesthetic"
What I&#..."Steampunk being an aesthetic"<br /><br />What I'm saying, though, is that steampunk is more than an aesthetic. Otherwise it just becomes Victorian with cogs on. Punk is and was never intended to be *just* an aesthetic.Sophie Playlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14937622260333202138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5927870683677181756.post-86099029441516365682011-04-15T19:51:59.870-04:002011-04-15T19:51:59.870-04:00If the steampunk book you’re reading doesn’t have ...<i>If the steampunk book you’re reading doesn’t have this element to it, perhaps it isn’t steampunk.</i><br /><br />I think the horse is already trotting down the road on that one, and there's no point in wishing the barn door had been closed. Especially since the reason why steampunk is lasting longer than cyberpunk is quite possibly that cyberpunk <i>did</i> require a viewpoint, which limited its repertoire and its emotional palette. Steampunk being an aesthetic, all sorts of viewpoints can be expressed in it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com